between the between

  Between coats of paint and firing of sculptures, I had a discussion. (below)  Seemed as good a post as any I can come up with at this point.   I worked since 7:30am and I are tired.

But, last night my kid and I howled at the moon.  And today, his dad and I worked together for same such kid's well-being and education.  The good stuff,  not in the curriculum.  Schools don't tend to  teach our kids what they need.  They weren't designed to.

Don't coddle me.   If you're here, you know me.  And you know I love you. It's okay to disagree.  Another  reason this makes a good post is that it's an opportunity to share an interesting technique:  When having a disagreeable discussion, I like to imagine myself in an adorably cute sleeveless cocktail dress.  It helps keep things civil.
  Often.  Not...always. 

But mostly, because I'm tired and can't compose something better than this at the moment.  Off to get a beer and watch Game of Thrones.

***

...in the U.S., first and foremost it is man-made and can be removed by, the people who are actually in poverty.

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By: True Activist

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  Rashad Richardson likes this.
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  Lisa Snellings I have to disagree, though I agree poverty is man made. Many people in poverty don't have the resources to affect change of any sort.
  

  about an hour ago ·
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  Feo Amante ‎@Lisa,
  
  Can you give me an example?
  

  about an hour ago ·
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  Lisa Snellings A single mother, for instance, working full-time at one low wage job and part-time at another still may not earn enough to do more than survive. That life style leaves little time or energy for education or other programs that might help her rise out of poverty. A frank look at the 'working poor' can be found in the groundbreaking Barbara Ehrenreich "Nickled and Dimed."
  

  about an hour ago ·
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  Feo Amante
  
  
  
  

  ‎@Lisa Snelling,
  "A single mother, for instance, working full-time at one low wage job and part-time at another still may not earn enough to do more than survive."
  
  You mean, like author J.K. Rowling?
  
  ... I have had the good fortune to not know one single mother who was an orphan without family or friends to help her get on her feet. Of course, I've only lived for 51 years, but still, I've met an awful lot of single mothers who take care of their child/children.

  
  

  about an hour ago ·
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  Kris Saknussemm Really fair and statistically relevant example Feo.
  

  about an hour ago ·
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  Lisa Snellings Then the best thing I can say here is that your experience has been quite different from mine. And, I didn't at all imply that these mothers didn't take care of their children. I stated that they were unable to rise out of poverty. I'm not sure where you live, but demographics of poverty show otherwise.
  

  about an hour ago ·
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  Lisa Snellings
  
  
  
  

  I also have a great deal of personal experience. I'm educated, relatively healthy, resourceful and (I'm told) quite talented. I've worked extremely hard these last four years to pay the bills and feed us. I'm not in poverty, but even in my ...situation, I'm hard pressed to make any real forward momentum. There are a lot of myths out there about poverty. Getting at the truth requires an open mind and a lot of research past your own back yard.

  
  

  about an hour ago ·
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  Feo Amante
  
  
  
  

  ‎@Lisa Snellings,
  "And, I didn't at all imply that these mothers didn't take care of their children."
  
  I'm not saying you did. I'm only quantifying single mothers who are taking care of their children, as there are those who aren't. The ec...onomic issues between the two are very different.
  
  @Kris Saknussemm,
  "Really fair and statistically relevant example Feo."
  
  Two things to take into account, Kris.
  1. Most humans will not work hard to achieve their goals, but only achieve enough to get enough of what they want and stop. Every self-made millionaire or billionaire on the planet worked much harder than that. Because of that, the number of people who achieve their dreams, like Kris Saknussemm, are statistically irrelevant compared to everyone who dreams of being a published writer.
  
  2. J.K. Rowling's relevance is the fact that when I mention her, everyone on my FB knows who I am talking about. her story is not obscure.
  
  I can reference obscure single mothers and provide valid newslinks to them if you like?
  
  For example, there's Sherelle Derico, a single mother who went from poverty in Florida to becoming a millionaire.
  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/behind-golden-voiced-ted-williams-ex-wife-patricia-kirtley-story-real-hero-article-1.153156
  
  There's Patricia Kirtley, a single mother of five who is also partially blind. She didn't become a millionaire but even with five children, she worked hard to pull herself out of poverty. the dole helped, family and friends helped more.
  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/behind-golden-voiced-ted-williams-ex-wife-patricia-kirtley-story-real-hero-article-1.153156
  
  It should be noted that Patricia even adopted her ex-husbands son from another Mother, because her ex and his girlfriend chose to live in poverty and pursue a life of drugs.
  
  There is no statistically relevant comparison between self-made wealthy people who came out of poverty and those who stayed because most people will only work hard enough to get what they want and then enjoy their leisure time. Which is fine because it's their life.

  
  

  
  

  Behind golden-voiced Ted Williams is ex-wife Patricia Kirtley, the story's real hero

  articles.nydailynews.com
  

  A viral video vaulted Ted Williams and his golden voice to fame, but the real he...ro of this story is the woman he left behind.Patricia Kirtley raised four daughters alone after Williams split 23...

  
  

  about an hour ago ·
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  Lisa Snellings No thanks. I'm pretty sure you've embarrassed yourself enough.
  

  59 minutes ago ·
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  Feo Amante
  
  
  
  

  ‎@Lisa Snellings,
  "There are a lot of myths out there about poverty. Getting at the truth requires an open mind and a lot of research past your own back yard."
  
  As reality would have it, I was born and raised in poverty. We moved constantly... from one dire situation to another until my Pop finally returned to the military and got a steady paycheck. then we went from poverty to just being broke all the time. I left home long before I turned 17. Unable to finish high school, I got a GED.
  
  So yeah, Poverty: I have an open mind about it and I know what I'm talking about.

  
  

  57 minutes ago ·
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  James E. Gurley Same here Feo. Poverty is caused by poor descisions - marry young, don't marry but have a kid, poor education, lack of self respect, buying what you want instead of what you need - people can get into dire staits and ned help, and I'll help, but not their grandchildren. At least people in a 3rd world country want to better themselves and know noone is going to do it but them.
  

  41 minutes ago ·
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  Lisa Snellings
  
  
  
  

  Feo, of course there are notable (and admirable!) exceptions. My problem is with your broad statement that poverty can be solved by the impoverished. That simply is not true- or even rational -and not at all what Nelson Mandela intended. ... And James - though some of what you say is viable, those decision-based circumstances aren't the broad brush with which to paint all of poverty, much of which is inherited. If we take a step back, it becomes evident that it's the system that's broken, not the individuals

  
  

  35 minutes ago ·
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  Feo Amante
  
  
  
  

  ‎@Lisa,
  "Feo, of course there are notable (and admirable!) exceptions. My problem is with your broad statement that poverty can be solved by the impoverished. That simply is not true- or even rational..."
  
  The massive reasons behind poverty... cannot be distilled to the single example of single mothers. Not even when you narrow the point, as I did, to the U.S. *That* red herring is irrational, and also a fallacy argument.
  
  I presented evidence to support my claim. I also admit that there are far more reasons for poverty in the U.S. than simply single mothers.
  
  So unless you can present counter-evidence to support your claim, then you are being both untrue and irrational.
  
  And by the way, in a country like ours where both adoption and abortion is available for free to single low-income mothers who do not wish to keep their baby, such poverty is precisely man-made.

  
  

  9 minutes ago ·
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  Lisa Snellings My claim is that the solution to poverty entails much more than the impoverished (inclusive of all) working harder. I may as well make a case for evolution or the super moon. I don't need to. It's already been made. I'm fairly certain that this the point where, were we having this discussion at a cocktail party, I would politely excuse myself and thank you for an interesting discussion. I vote we agree to disagree on the subject. I don't think there's a chance in hell either of us could change the other's mind.
  

  a few seconds ago ·
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Hope your Monday morning is as good as Mondy mornings get.